Well, at half past ten on Saturday night I typed the words THE END on page 300 of the first draft of The Charmed Return and sent it off to the UK editors.
Now, as most of you know by now - this is not the end of the line for the book. For a start, don’t make too much of the 300 page thing - at this stage the book is typed up double-spaced. I’m not quite sure why this is still the case. It used to be so that editors could write their comments between the lines when the books were sent off on paper, but I think these computerised days, when the book is an email attachment, it’s just tradition.
Anyway, the book will now be read and commented on by two UK editors - Karen and Rosie, with whom I have been working since The Immortal Realm. They’ll be getting back to me in a few weeks, at which point I will check through what they have suggested and make all the changes that I think help make the book better. These changes can range from places where I haven’t explained things very well (places where I know what’s going on, but I kind of forget the reader doesn’t…), and places where I’ve repeated words too often - and places where things might work better if they are put in a slightly different order. It can also include some “strikeout” - which is where the editors put a line through words, phrases, sentances or paragraphs that they think are not necessary - you know, where I repeat myself or tell readers things that the editors don’t think are relevant. Editors are also really keen on pace and action - and they’ll always be looking to keep the story moving at speed, so I sometimes have to be careful they don’t want interesting stuff edited out just to keep the plot moving fast. Descriptions of places are always being edited down in this way - they think people get bored by long descriptions of places.
Something else they do is to ask me to put some dialogue in among long action scenes - and to put some action in among conversations - they also think readers get bored by action without conversation and conversation without action.
Very occasionally, they will ask me to take out entire scenes because they think they are not relevant to the plot. Sometimes I will agree to this, sometimes not.
But among all this editing, I can tell you one thing - they have never tried to edit the songs or poems.
Anyway, I’ll let you know when the book comes back from Rosie and Karen, and how much work they want me to do on it, and whether I agree with it all.
Very cool! It’s getting closer
If you ever had a scene that you wanted to keep in, but had to delete you could always post it here after the book comes out!
wow that sounds like a LONG prosess!
It amuses me that editors can have the creative literary license to tell you what you are seeing in your head when it comes to the stories. That’s one main reason why i added the education option to my english major. I just do not feel comfortable taking that power to do that.
wonder what the editors said to “jabberwocky” by lewis carroll the first time they saw it. that is a conversation/debate i would like to be a fly on the wall to.
I just hope they don’t get TOO strikeout happy… I like you’re descriptions.
AFJ. Preaching to the choir there, Tracy. In my opinion, Alice in Wonderland would not these days get within a millions miles of ever being published. I even think these days that The Lord of The Rings would be sent back for several edits to make it more reader-friendly. What? We don’t get to see the Ents attack Isengard - we get told about it by Merry and Pippin? Are you out of your mind? And Chapter Two - two guys sitting in a dark room talking for thirty pages? No one will sit still for that, Mr Tolkien. And you do it again in the Council of Elrond, listen, you might be a professor and everything, but you don’t know a single thing about telling a story. And, I’m sorry, but Arwen needs to be more “feisty” - we simply cannot have women in adventure books these days if they aren’t totally “feisty”!
Bottom line? Editors are employed by Publishers. Publishers control the money. Writers are at the bottom of the food chain. No kidding.
I would LOOVE to be a fly on the wall with that conversation with Tolkien. Actually I would love to see him freak out in general. What about the post-modern stuff?
Mr. Ginsberg, this red wheelbarrow you speak of isn’t quite clear, and it doesn’t even rhyme. You need to go back and put in some better meters and feet. OOORRRR Mr. Kerouac what would possible possess you to write a book in such little time high off your a*%? Take this and go somewhere else, we won’t even waste our time with it.
It’s a shame that today the market has change so dramatically. Imagine what we would have missed out on if it had ALWAYS been this way. Then again, think what could have happened with your stories if you had been around THEN.
You mean your like a freshman in high school and the publishers are
the seniors… i hope you don’t get chewed up and spit out and then
embarrassed… that didn’t happen to me I’ve just heard it. also at
my school there used to be this pay phone on our way to the lunch
and you know how you normally carry a back pack and stuff, so
anyways what seniors used to do to us little freshman was they used
to take the phone and put it through the back pack loop and then you
keep walking and what do you know your embarrassed and stuck. So
try not to get eaten chewed and spit out.
wow! do you have ANY say in it!!!! what if for instance they wanted to cut out the part in book 2 when zara dies? and you really wanted to keep it (witch im sure you would) would you be able to stand up and say NO!?
AFJ. Addie, it’s not quite like freshmen and seniors - because you have to remember that without writers, publishers have no books to publish - they will go out of business.
The bottom line is that Publishers always think they know the “market” better than writers, and that their suggestions for changes in a book will make it “better” for the market - you know - more reader-friendly….so more copies get sold.
Publishers want to sell as many copies as possible - so they try to get rid of anything complicated or unusual that they think people won’t understand.
Let me give you an example. In The Lost Queen, Titania is working for a Law Firm under the alias of Lilith Mariner, yes? Here’s the thing: there is a group of stars called “The Pleiades” - also known as the Seven Sisters. (This is real, I’m not making this up.) I thought it would be amazing to call the Law Firm “The Pleiades Legal Group”. An executive in the publishing firm said this was a really bad idea because a lot of readers would not only not understand the reference, but would not be able to pronounce the word “Pleiades” - and it would put them off.
Now, in my experience, when people hit a word in a book they do not know, one of three things happens. 1. The reader ignores it and reads on. 2. The reader stumbles over the word, but if it is in context, they kind of get what it must mean even if they don’t know for sure. 3. The Reader looks the word up to find out what it means. (This is what I used to do all the time, but then I like new words).
I argued this, but the executive didn’t agree - so I said “okay then” and didn’t argue any more. Guess what? I sneaked Pleiades through under the radar and the editors didn’t comment on it and if you check the book out, it’s right there! So writers can get stuff they want past the publishers sometimes. And I’ve never had a single person write in to say they have a problem with “Pleiades”.
Liz - I do have plenty of say in what goes in the book - but if I want something in there that the editors disagree with I have to state my case really clearly and convince them to change their minds. Sometimes this happens, sometimes it doesn’t. For instance, in Warrior Princess book three, the editors came up with a whole bunch of changes (mostly really small) that they wanted. I disagreed with 25 of these changes and explained why. The editors were okay with 24 of them, and we reached a compromise on the 25th.
And to give you an idea of the nature of these changes, the one we compromised on was where I used the phrase “spitting feathers”. Now, in England, this means being really angry, but the American editors told me that this phrase is not used in the USA, so readers would not understand it. So we changed it. So, you see, sometimes the changes are really very small.
Or they can be bigger - like with Warrior Princess 2, where I had something set up for the climax of the book, and the editors disageed entirely with where I wanted it to go. We debated this piece of action for several weeks - I had the hero Branwen doing something that the editor totally disagreed with - the editor thought she would never do what I had suggested. But in the end, I managed to convince the editor that my suggestion would work - and it stayed. So, again - I do have influence - and to be honest, I really don’t know what would happen if I really dug my heels in on something that they editors were totally opposed to - we learn to compromise. Oh, and they were fine with Zara dying - but they changed the title of the book from The Sorcerer King to The Seventh Daughter without consulting me because they decided that The Seventh Daughter would be a more user-friendly title. They consider that a “marketing ” decision, and therefore out of my sphere of knowledge.
AFJ. Tracy - the other thing to remember with Tolkien is that “The Hobbit” got published because the son of the Publisher liked it! Now, that would NEVER happen these days - nowadays, every new book or book series has to get past an “aquisitions” meeting - where the editor who likes the book has to convince a whole bunch of other people that the project will make money. This means pitching it to the right “demographic” and working out a “marketing strategy” and convincing the accountants that money will be made quickly and in large amounts. No room now for the publisher’s daughter or son recommending it - it’s all big business now.
But one curious thing I have noticed is that the editors never touch the poetry or songs I put in the books. They are quite happy to go to town on the prose, but they leave the poems alone - which I find kind of intriguing.
As for Ginsberg and Kerouac - they might consider such things “prestige” publishing and be prepared to leave them alone - I really can’t imagine an editor going to town on HOWL! Where would you start?
But let me tell you something that the editors vetoed.
In The Faerie Path series, I originally had Tania and the others drinking Faerie wine - the publishers said it was not acceptable in books for young people that alcohol should make an appearance - so we compromised and I called the drink “Faerie cordial” instead.
Also, there is a scene in one of the books where Tania and her mortal parents are watching Titanic. Originally, I had Mr Palmer having a small drink of whiskey - but I was asked to remove the reference to whiskey, because “Americans have a different attitude to hard liquor than the British.” I think he ended up drinking coffee.
So - how many of you would really have been freaked by Clive Palmer sipping some whiskey, I wonder?
Clive and I can sip whiskey together!
I wouldn’t have been freaked out, we just learned learned about the Whiskey Rebellion. honestly i actually found something interesting out. Whiskey is made out of…………………..CORN!!!!who would have known.
wow!!!!! that a lot of info! and i liked the sorcer king better it really confused me when i was looking for it in the stores cuz in the back of book 2 it says sorcer king but when i got in the store i was the seventh daughter. lol and i have another question for you mr jones im having a hard time in the book im writing to come up with new names what do you suggest? i already have like 100 pages but im at the part where a lot of new people come in and i was wondering how you come up with all of your names?? like who did you make up names like edric and rathina?????
AFJ. Liz - I try not to make up names in my head if I can help it. Occasionally names do just pop in there, but I like to use “real” names if I can. For contemporary names I usually check out the TV guide or the backs of DVDs and borrow names from the actors or characters I find. (The first name of one actor, married to the last name of another, for instance)But for books like Faerie Path or Warrior Princess, I go online. I google “Elizabethan names” or “Celtic Names” or “Saxon Names” and go down the lists until I see something I like. I’m also quite happy to borrow names from legends and myths (Oberon, for instance!) Plus I take names from other places - for instance the dressmaker Mistress Mirrlees in Faerie Path - Hope Mirrlees is the writer of a Fantasy book I like - Lud-in-the-Mist. In other words, I just hunt around till I find something I like.
AFJ. Hey Shannon. I’m sorry I’ve not responded to your idea about the deleted scenes thing before. I have been thinking about it. Writing a book is rather different from shooting a movie - stuff is tweaked and changed all the time till the final deadline, so very often there aren’t any real “outtakes” - just different versions of the same thing till everyone is happy with the end product. As many of these changes are from suggestions by the publishers, they might not take kindly to me showing you alternative versions - especially if you like them better!
Still, I’m going to ask about this and see what they say.
As for complete deleted scenes - really, the whole point of working the story out in advance, is to make sure everything works, and although occasionally entire scenes get removed, it doesn’t really happen that often. Leave it with me, though, and I’ll see if it’s possible.
Even if it isn’t, it’s a really great idea!
Allan, ive written on ur blogs before bur now i just wanna let u know how much i apprecitae your work. u describe every detail and when i read about the evil unicorns in book three, i felt like i was there. i wanna thank u for being an author and utting your great literature out there for people to read. Thanks again.
-Jess
Shoot, on the bus i realized something…you see i just read Romeo and Juliet for fun in 3 days, and then i was thinking about the Faerie Path and something popped into my head, (Let me know if this is right, and if it was purposely) so you know how Tania is Juliet, and Edric is Romeo, wouldn’t Drake kind of be like Paris??? i was thinking i mean Juliet never loved Paris, and i don’t believe Tania ever really love Drake. So, it seems to me like it is sort of a Romeo and Juliet story……………………………………………………………………
AFJ. Thanks Jess, for your kind words - it’s really great that I have a job I love so much, and that on top of that I get messages like yours!
Addie - I hadn’t made the “Paris” connection - but that doesn’t mean it isn’t there - nice research!
how did you come up with the country of Faerie like the name for it?
ur totally welcome allan! ur my favorite author, honestly. i started writing my own story called Upside Down. Its about a girl who’s mother is missing and she is looking to find her while trying to stay away from her crazy father. i hope to finish it. and to tell u the truth, u were my inspiration. ur writing grabbed me and pulled me into the writing world. but i do plan on becoming a veterinarian.
AFJ. Carolina, I didn’t invent the name “Faerie” - it’s a really old word, from the 15th Century, and appears in a huge old book called The Faerie Queen which was written about the time of Queen Elizabeth the First. I always prefer to use “real” names than made-up ones - they just sound better to me.
AFJ. Jess - there’s nothing more pleasing and thrilling for a writer than to be told they have inspired a younger person to start writing. I was inspired by a writer called Alan Garner when I was about ten years old - and quite recently I wrote and told him that - and he told me that I was the first person who had ever said that to him! But I do think you’re very wise to learn to do another job as well - and being a vet is as good a job as I can think of!
im working on two diff. stories at a time right now! and for me mr.jones it was the back round storie you have posted on your site! iv all ways love writing but i used to think that if i ever tryed to write a book i would fail horribly!
but you storie changed my mind and here i am getting A+s in writing! 
thanks allan!
Mr Jones - i know its a random qstn but …..um….
Suppose you’re writing a book and you have hardly got upto the second chptr when you start getting all flustered and frustrated because there are so many ideas in ur head and u dunno which one to write????I m in that situation right now, !Help!!!!!!;)
AFJ. Okay, Melody - I think I know what you mean. I think what might have happened here is that you have started writing without quite knowing where the book is going. And you’ve hit the classic problem of your brain rushing off in several different directions at once.
What you need to do is to take a step back from your writing and spend some time plotting the book out. I’m not saying you need to know every detail of what will happen, but you do need to give yourself sign-posts to help guide you through the book.
Do you have an end worked out? If not, you should come up with one - even if you change it later on when a better end comes to you. That way you have a specific place to which you’re trying to get your plot and your characters. Imagine the book divided up into, say - four parts. Where do you want the plot and the characters to be by the end of part one? Where do you want them to be at the end of part two?
I know it can seem like it’s going to suck the life out of a book if you plot it all out in advance, but trust me, taking out a week or two to come up with a bunch of plots will help in the long run.
And if you have zillions of different plots all exploding in different directions, follow each of them through with bullet points - see where each option takes you. Some will work, some won’t. Some might work for this book - others might work in a different book.
My only other suggestion, is to maybe put this particular story aside for a couple of weeks and work on something different - your subconscious will be working away on the first book and, who knows, in a few weeks, all your confusion may have worked itself out without you having to even think about it!
Hope this helps a little.
which one do u think would come first to u melody. i had that problem early while writing my book.
Personally I like the title “the Sorcerer King” better. The book is about the Seventh Daughter but the sorcerer king made me wonder what was going to happen more than the seventh daughter’ would
wow that is REALY good advise mr jones!!!! ill use that too! if that is ok…